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 Vote for new sideboard swap rules: 

Are you in favor of the proposed sideboarding rule?
YES 67%  67%  [ 6 ]
NO 33%  33%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 9

 Vote for new sideboard swap rules: 
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Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:10 pm
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Post Re: Vote for new sideboard swap rules:
defenestrator wrote:
Escalation is definitely a problem, bcos this method DRASTICALLY accelerates the speed at which decks evolve.


I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. Its true that we will have escalation, and that your deck probably won't be as strong as somebody else's deck that has eight games under their belt.

But! I am certain that the point of diminishing return would come pretty quickly. Play two games, and you would effectively be caught up. Like I said before, there would be plenty of powerful cards in peoples' pools for you to pick up, and since there are so many other factors involved in a game of MTG, its not like its an automatic loss if your opponent's sealed deck has more stronger cards than yours (especially considering all the bomby rares are not a factor in this).


Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:35 pm
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Post Re: Vote for new sideboard swap rules:
bigger cardpool=stronger decks, better consistency, smoother curve, less need to bother with splashes.
Sure, the only way to really know is to try it out, and I'm always open to the possibility of being wrong, but the problem is not insignificant. Moreover, the point of diminishing returns will vary with the size of the group, and I'd rather have a system that doesn't get swingier with larger groups.
Let's put it in perspective. I'm playing WU Kor and Allies - assuming you aren't in those colors, how many card would i get from you to strengthen my deck, do you think? If you're in Jund colors, then I suspect that I'd get more goodies from one match with you than from 3 extra boosters - the rare cards might swing games, but IME, commons make decks and decks win matches most of the time.
Finally, a minor point that you hinted at is how much fun is this going to be if you've already played everyone once? Is it going to become a headache going thru cards that you've already sifted thru? Just wondering - you offer diminishing marginal returns as an argument for, but if you're right about the tipping point then it's perhaps an argument against. Perhaps a more nuanced version of this system would keep the thrill going - say, after 2 weeks, or after you've played the same person 3 times you can trade, etc.


Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:07 pm
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Post Re: Vote for new sideboard swap rules:
Of course I am also quite willing to be proven wrong. But anyway, I think that we have discussed enough of the theory behind it that we will just resort to restating our original points ad nauseum.

The question is, are you willing to give it a try? We can have a more in-depth analysis of the results and offer up fine-tuned variations at the end of the league, but for here and now, its a simple question of are you willing to possibly have an out-of-control bonkers league for the sake of developing a new and exciting league in the future? Nothing ventured, nothing gained I say.


Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:29 pm
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Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:31 am
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Post Re: Vote for new sideboard swap rules:
This is how we sideboard:(not an opinion this is how all 5 of us that were there did it tonight; the discussion is over)

50 cards of your choice are given to your opponent after the match and vice versa *NOTE* EXACTLY 50 CARDS(NOT INCLUDING BASIC LAND)

50 is good because people can play the 24ish cards in their deck and then keep their money cards and some sideboard cards which is usually about 10 cards.

IMO we should not add a 7th pack thou... believe me after tonight I know my deck changes every time I swap 50 cards and since the 7th pack idea is to freshen things up i think it's a moot point. the decks are rapidly evolving after matches and it's not taking nearly as long to retool 'em as i feared. even rei played and swapped pools and changed her deck in just a few minutes(her deck is sick btw but hey everyone's deck will be after about a couple pool swaps). It's so easy to switch colors too. the side decks are getting insane as the decks become more focused so there are better cards in the sides. so when you come in doesn't really matter that much since the you can only keep so many "good" cards; i.e. the guy with the sick monoblack deck has no use for those harrows and oran reef survivalist.


Tonight was a blast! GOGOGOGOGO Hellkite Charger!!!!! Man i love my hasty dragons in limited...


Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:20 am
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Post Re: Vote for new sideboard swap rules:
The discussion will continue, I think.
Brian, to answer your question, of course I'm willing to ggo along with a majority vote - altho the vote seems to have been preempted rather forcefully.
Sean, thanks for making my point about power escalation a little less theoretical, eh?


Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:28 am
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Post Re: Vote for new sideboard swap rules:
The thing is that while there is rampant power escalation in decks, its not only one's own deck who is growing and evolving. I must say this new format is an absolute blast to play. I love that I can improve my deck every game I play. It adds a real addicting sense, almost like that of an MMORPG, where I want to urk out as much power as I can.

The sideboards are stupidly broken as well. As of right now, the next person to play me is getting THREE Welkin Terns, one of the BEST two drops ever in limited. Because of the nature of 40 cards decks, slots are at a premium. This often forces one into either a mono or HIGHLY focuses 2 color deck, leaving the other pools VERY deep. It would not be that unlikely to pick up two or even three Journeys to No Where simply because the other person wasn't playing white.

Yes you are going to get absolutely stomped on your first game. Once you get that game in and have access to a highly tuned cardpool full of things we just don't have room for such as... BLAZING TORCH?!?! then you're deck will quickly become competitive. This format rewards those who play league consistently, which not only promotes the format and keeps life in it all the way until Worldwake, it adds a sense of constant and never ending improvement.

I understand where you're coming from in that you want to open your sealed pool and be competitive for the few games you do play but please try to consider those of us who want to play league a lot more than that and keep it going. To foster that kind of environment, there needs to be a component of never ending and deliberate (not a random card at the end of the match) opportunity for improvement.


Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:46 am
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Post Re: Vote for new sideboard swap rules:
Rishana wrote:
The thing is that while there is rampant power escalation in decks, its not only one's own deck who is growing and evolving. I must say this new format is an absolute blast to play. I love that I can improve my deck every game I play. It adds a real addicting sense, almost like that of an MMORPG, where I want to eke out as much power as I can.

Is that really a problem that needs to be fixed? Is magic somehow not addictive enough?
My main concern that the league will no longer be able to serve what may be its primary function - as the lowest common denominator of magic at Shakey's. No matter how many cards you have or how much or little you know about the game, you can always build and play a league deck. If the line between LIMITED and block constructed is blurring, we should at least pause to consider how that may affect new players.
If you're bored with league, play less league. If you want to try new formats, this is certainly an interesting new format, I'll grant you, but there are approximately a thousand other formats available to Magic players, so consider playing with some of them as an alternative to revolutionizing the league.


Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:16 am
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Post Re: Vote for new sideboard swap rules:
this league belongs to those of us who SHOW UP and play week in, week out

those of us who SHOWED UP had a blast and we will continue to do so


Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:06 pm
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Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:41 pm
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Post Re: Vote for new sideboard swap rules:
So you started the new system before the poll was closed ??
That's a bit like opening 6 boosters when everyone else is on 5...

Feel free to propose (and I think the 50-card swap sounds fair) but don't take the world into your own hands.
Please.

S.


Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:47 pm
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---------
Post Re: Vote for new sideboard swap rules:
As much as I dislike the necessity of having a life outside of Magic, that's the way it is.

More importantly, if we're talking about making sure the League format is good for the group (and as I said, performs the particular function that it has performed since we started), then the validity of my ideas should be more important than my schedule.


Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:42 pm
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