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 RULES DISPUTES 
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:57 am
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Post RULES DISPUTES
I thought it might be a good idea to set up a thread specifically to deal with the rules issues that arise in play. This is, after all, the most complex game in the history of history, and disagreements will inevitably occur. Our two priorities as a group should be, I think,
1) to resolve all disagreements amicably
2) to learn from our own mistakes and each others'

First item of business, Sean and I disagreed about the end and cleanup steps, as they relate to "until end of turn" effects. In line with #1 above, we went with the majority (Pete thought I was right), and I agreed to buy Sean an adult beverage if I was wrong. I think this, by the way, should be the way to resolve all such disputes, because we only spent a minute or two making our cases, and then continued with the game.
The exact situation:
I played a Briarhorn at the end of Pete's turn, giving my other creature (Scarland Thrinax) +3/+3 until end of turn. I thought that this bonus would last until the end of the next turn (my turn), because the "beginning of the end step" triggers had already occurred.
The relevant rules:
513.3. If a permanent with an ability that triggers “at the beginning of the end step” enters the battlefield during this step, that ability won’t go on the stack until the next turn’s end step. Likewise, if a delayed triggered ability that triggers “at the beginning of the next end step” is
created during this step, that ability won’t go on the stack until the next turn’s end step...This rule applies only to triggered abilities; it doesn’t apply to continuous effects whose durations say “until end of turn” or
“this turn.”

514.2. describes the Clean-up step, after the End Step, during which "all “until end of turn” and “this turn” effects end." ("512.1. The ending phase consists of two steps: end and cleanup.")

So, obviously I owe Sean a beer - sorry! (although I should point out that this wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game - instead of attacking with a 3/3 Briarhorn, I could have sacced it and attacked with a (Berserked, Relentless) 3/3 Thrinax...the damage would have been the same).

For future reference, a card like Corpse Dance (Return the top creature card of your graveyard to the battlefield. That creature gains haste until end of turn. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step) or Zirilan of the Claw (Search your library for a Dragon permanent card and put that card onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library. That Dragon gains haste until end of turn. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step.) can be used in the way that i imagined, but a Giant Growth type of effect (Target creature gets +3/+3 until end of turn) cannot. I have been screwed over by Todd's Zirilan deck so many times that I was sure I could make the same rule work for me...it turns out it isn't the same rule!


Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:44 am
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Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:31 am
Posts: 139
Post Re: RULES DISPUTES
It was a good game! Gratz Peter! Archers lol FTW!!

See you guys next week!


Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:42 am
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Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:31 am
Posts: 139
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Post Re: RULES DISPUTES
the song that was tuck in my head was

Sublime- Bob Marley Medley

...this train is bound for glory...


Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:55 am
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